Carter wide receiver
Q: You mentioned your summer job as camp director at Friendship West Baptist. Do you have another job?
A: I'm in-between jobs. My field is office administration and doing office support.
I was employed at a place called Platinum Litigation, from '01 to the end of '07. We did litigation support, document reproduction, like say a company goes bankrupt, needs records copied for files or backed up on discs.
Scan the files to discs to make it easier to maneuver in court. We had a part in the Enron case. After that, Anna Nicole Smith.
We had a difference in direction. I had been with them long enough, had always been on a night shift. I was production supervisor the entire time, on a couple of occasions was promised a sales rep job, didn't get it. Decided to go different ways before the economy did what it did.
Q: Before that?
A: I was with a company called HQ Global. They rent out office space, executive suites, give support to the tenants. Used to be on 900 Jackson. I did that from '98 through 2001, about three years.
I was actually going to college during a time that probably coincided with the documents. That was about a year and a half, also worked with a home health organization, doing some scheduling.
Q: Which school?
A: UT-Arlington. Got Associates degree, but not bachelors.
Q: How long did you serve in prison?
A: 7½.
Q: Was that the longest among the group?
A: Actually, two of us served about the same. I got the longest, but Derric Evans, he did seven. I know he probably came home about two or three months before I did.
Q: Where were you primarily?
A: Coffield, Tennessee Colony.
Q: Is that where you started?
A: Pretty much. I went to what you would consider minimum security, but they sent us all there and I don't think that's what they intended, to have us there as a group. After that we were re-classified and split up.
That's when I went to Coffield.
Q: Was Derric there, too?
A: Actually, he did most of his job on Ferguson, which was Midway, Texas. I actually was doing some Trusty work in the unit he paroled from, maybe Iowa Park near Wichita Falls.
Q: Did you see him?
A: Yeah, after seven years.
Q: What did you talk about?
A: Actually, just glad to see one another. A lot of us, even though it probably seemed like we were close-knit, you had your collection of friends, even in school. I guess that's a plus of playing on a team. Everyone has a common goal on the field. But off the field, everybody doesn't have the same situations.
Actually, P.K. and I were closer than Derric and I. P.K., I mentioned Carlos and another person he probably mentioned was Aric or Jimmy. But from the football team it was P.K., Carlos and I.
Q: Didn't know if you were aware, P.K. is a youth minister in addition to being a car salesman.
A: I'm not a minister, but I'm also active with the youth in our church. I would say what has inspired me to do that is I just realized over my lifetime there have been people I looked at as being very influential to me. If they had taken the opportunity to say, 'No, don't do that, man. Stay away from that,' things would have been a whole lot different. I think that is what is necessary now.
You have so many negative influences that it takes a number of people, in passing every day, to either encourage or re-direct. I'm not surprised to hear that those you have talked to are involved in youth ministry.
Q: P.K. in particular seems to want to give back.
A: Actually, he has never been any different. He probably seemed very humble to you. That's always been his demeanor.
Q: You were listed as a receiver. How much did you play?
A: Very little. Actually, I transferred from Skyline. At that time, they had the M&M transfer, so we couldn't play right away. Then when I came back, I broke my ankle my sophomore year at Carter and sat out that year.
My junior year, I got quite a bit of playing time. But my senior year, and one of the things I really appreciate about, as you get older you understand why things were done the way they were, and under Coach James it was significant, he knew that he could get kids into school. Not just due to your athletic abilities. I think one of his main concerns was whoever he was working with that they also had a mindset that he wouldn't destroy the pipeline that was in place.
Q: So you weren't part of the pipeline?
A: I actually was on my way to Grambling. In my opinion, I think on that (Carter) team there was one guy who was better than me at receiver, Marcus Grant. Actually grew up playing little league and junior high with him.
Just making the wrong decisions. I was always trying to protect friends, with regards to fighting and that kind of thing. Coach James, a couple of games where I wouldn't even suit out because of something I had done during the week.
Q: What do you remember about the playoff run?
A: I think our team as a whole, especially the ones that went to Hulcey and Atwell, knew that we always had the talent to win state. I think Coach James took over in '82. In between '82 and '95, there were probably at least eight to ten of those years where those teams should have been up near the finals.
I remember our sophomore year, '87, which was Darren Lewis' senior year, we lost to Highland Park. I guess there were a number of us who were on that team. We said amongst one another that it didn't make any sense. By the time we were seniors, we had a commitment to win state.
Going into the playoffs, I truly remember the day the reporters showed up and said that we were not playing. Actually, I remember the players' attitude that they were just some people running off the mouth and that it wasn't true.
I remember where I was, leaving the school, and I remember saying to myself, 'They have to know something.' I remember we had a parents meeting, Royce West, Thomas Jones, a number of people who had some influence in that neighborhood . ...
But I remember after that night, everybody seemed to have the attitude that if we had the opportunity to play, we definitely won't lose.
Q: What time of the day did you find out the team had been disqualified?
A: Matter of fact, it was about 5:30, right after practice. I remember two reporters, fairly young, came.
I remember Coach James being very upset. They went into the locker room. We were out at practice. I don't know if he had known they were going to be coming. Whatever they had to say, I remember him being very upset when he walked into the locker room door. And I remember a number of players being very upset.
Hollering out, 'Get off our field.' That kind of thing. That's what made me think, 'They ain't just coming up here on a whim.' We got in the car, I remember being in the car with Carlos and P.K. and it coming on the radio, Chris Arnold saying that Carter High School has been banned from the playoffs.
That next day, I'll never forget that Friday at school, there was really not much regarding school, class. There was just a whole lot of people wondering what was going to happen. But the word was circulating that we still would get to play.
I'll never forget, it was a double header. Duncanville was playing Plano. That was the only blemish on our record, 24-24 tie. I had so much despise for them. We were beating them 21-0 at the half. Our best corner, Clifton Abraham, dislocated his shoulder. They got back in the game.
Actually, I was pulling for them to lose. But coming up the tunnel, everybody I passed encouraged us to go out and beat Plano East. I'll never forget that. To me, that was quite a moment. I remember the game being close up until about the third or fourth quarter and they couldn't get across the 50.
It was ironic that the person who scored both of the touchdowns to give us the margin of victory was the person they said had not passed the class. It just goes to show that sometime people step up to the plate when the weight of the world is put on their shoulder.
Actually, it's just my opinion to this day, I don't think he did anything wrong. I wasn't in his class, but I knew his parents very well. I'd grown up with Gary. We'd been in the same school since seventh grade. I knew what his parents expected of him.
Q: As the playoffs progressed and legal hurdles kept coming, did you think at the time that any of it was racially motivated?
A: Me? I didn't. I can't ever. ... I thought that decision. ... Now, that final outcome, I do. But then? No.
There were a couple of things I always thought about regarding that year. If Gary doesn't end up playing as well as he did in the playoffs, you might not have had that same outcome. It almost looks like we needed him in order to be successful.
And actually Gary was probably our No. 3 running back. Our No. 1 running back broke his ankle. Carlos. And Harvey Harper, kind of like couldn't catch, so they used Gary in special situations.
Q: Can you talk about how the robberies started?
A: I think P.K. talked to Carlos and it was Carlos who talked to me. And just because, I think a lot of people by that time, kind of looked at me as, 'You know what, if Keith hasn't tried it or done it, you probably ought not try it.'
I remember Carlos coming to me. I said, 'Man, you're out of your mind.' P.K. talked to us a couple of times. I'll never forget, in my first mind, I was like, 'Nah, crazy.'
He was working at Jack-In-the Box. I kind of just drew up a plan. It was he, Carlos and myself. After that, we probably didn't do anything for a number of months. I don't think anything else happened for about, I might be wrong, until March or April, if not later.
Q: P.K. said he had taken another job by then.
A: Yeah, we were both working at Pancho's.
Q: Co-workers at Pancho's had no idea?
Even when I went to court, they didn't believe I had anything to do with it. I still remember the manager, Glenn Jester. I remember that's the guy who gave me my job, and I remember that's the guy who got on the stand and still couldn't not believe that I had anything to do with it.
Actually, I've wanted to see him. One of the guys who was a manager also, I have seen, but I didn't say anything to him. I didn't know if he would remember because he came along at Pancho's when I was about to leave.
Q: When did you see him?
A: Right when I got home (from prison). He was managing a Sonic.
Q: They were classified as armed robberies. How many guns were involved?
A: First one wasn't a real gun. Probably out of about four or five robberies that I was involved in, I think maybe you're looking at two or three that had guns.
Q: Do you remember any of the victims?
A: Glenn was one. At the Pancho's, I didn't go in because I worked there. P.K. didn't go in, either. We were outside in the car. Everybody was off work.
Q: For some reason, I thought you guys opened the door?
A: That was at the Jack in the Box. I recall it being probably about 2 in the morning. I guess Aric, who got probation, Aric and Jimmy Edwards, who played basketball, went in.
He and Aric, those were the only two, they went in for one robbery each, I guess getting away from it at the time, that was enough for them. Actually, they're the only two who got probation. I think they deserved that.
Q: There was another robbery, wasn't there?
A: That one was a Grandy's. Actually, time went by between the Pancho's and Grandy's, probably two months.
I remember the last one was because of prom and senior fees. I remember that that was Norbert, Jimmy and myself, maybe P.K., I'm not for sure.
Q: P.K. showed me the picture from that prom with a lot of you guys.
A: He showed it to you, the big one, with all of us? He probably got it from me because I know, when we were gone, I sent that to some of the guys.
Did he show you the school jacket? I have mine. I wear it periodically. Mine has a Campbell's soup can on there.
Q: Does your jacket also have FTH on it?
A: Have you read Friday Night Nights? That book is on point. When I read that book, I could actually say that the book was true. Yeah, FTH (laughing).
Actually, since I've been home, I don't do a lot of hanging with other folks. I haven't said to myself, 'Why?' I'm sure a lot of it has to do with some of the things that were said and done during our trial. A lot of finger pointing went on.
Q: You mean, why you got the stiffest sentence?
A: Yeah. I tell people, this is my perception on the whole trial. If we hadn't won state, if we were probably the kind of team that Sunset or North Dallas was at the time, things probably would have been a whole lot different.
I think it is very significant that most, if not all of those who served a lengthy amount of time, people that had any kind of influence on the decision, probably looked at those who did more time having the opportunity to still be something. I can't say race. I'm kind of picky on using that word. Sometimes, it's just that people don't live the same.
Give you an example. I remember the trial. If you go up to probably any school in your urban areas, most disagreements and issues are probably handled physically. I didn't understand that most people reasoned until I went to court.
Q: One of your teammates thought your body language in court might have influenced your getting a harsher sentence.
A: I knew I didn't want to be considered what they would probably say, a snitch, or a finger-pointer.
I'm an only child, so I kind of learned how to deal with things on my own. There was never somebody to blame. More like, if some candy is missing out of the kitchen, you took it. You were the only one who was here. I had to learn how to accept the consequences for my actions. That played a big part in that, as well as, I've always been a bright individual.
Even my attorney and I have talked since I've been home. Even he admitted that he was not ready to defend me. I think that kind of played a part in probably my body language. I didn't attend the others' trials. Most of them attended mine when I was on the stand, which meant I didn't hear a lot of what they were saying. My attorney from time to time would come back and ask me, 'Did you do this?'
The Grandy's robbery, even to this day, I won't say who it was, but it came out that a gun was put to the manager's head. And it was said I did it. I ain't do it, but I ain't said who did it, either. All I said was, and I was willing to take that risk, was you could subpoena the manager and ask him to describe that person.
Being humble, I'll say this: If I had known that crying would have helped me a little bit, then I probably would have boo-hooed. But I felt like the truth would play the biggest role in how they determined what they would do and who they would do it to.
I remembered Kendall being very critical of how my attorney was presenting his case. A couple of times my dad was on the verge of standing up and probably being held in contempt of the court. That's probably another reason why I didn't show the kind of remorse that people thought I should.
Coming from a family where my dad's a minister, they talk about training a child in the way he should go and he'll come back to that. I remember when I got out on bond, I had a whole different mindset. I felt like I was going to go to college. Everything I'd done was basically just some crazy stuff, but I had finally understood the significance of the decisions you make and how there are different consequences, good and bad.
At that time, I felt that if I was just honest, that would be the best policy. A writer asked me, she came to me during recess and asked out of the company of my attorney and said, 'I heard that people were doing these robberies because they had a gambling addiction. And I said 'I don't have a gambling addiction. I don't know why anybody did whatever they did.' She went and wrote an article that said I said it was because of gambling.
Q: Do you feel like having a criminal record has held you back?
A: Let me tell you what I get. It does. Usually, my responses are from banks, insurance companies, places that are bonded. I had a position with an office support agency. I was on my way, but the guy called and said human resources just called him and pulled him off the table, and it was because of my record.
Nine-eleven, that has also added to it. Up until my losing my position with Platinum, I was married, had two kids.
Q: How long were you married and what are your kids' names?
A: Ten years, from '98 to this year. Kyle and Kourtney. Just the success they have, that's the only thing that probably keeps me grounded. She is 10 and he is 8. She was born on my birthday at the exact same time, 7:22, April 17.
The kids were with me this week, joint custody. My desire, once I find work, is she's been a mom since her teenage years. That was really one of the concerns that I had. I just want so much more for mine than what a lot of people set as a standard. A lot of people are like, 'I don't want my child to go to jail; I don't want my child to become a teenage mom.' But that ought to be a standard that's understood.
Kourtney is at the top of her class, has always been. Kyle does extremely well.
(he pulls out a scrapbook, with a certificate signed by Laura Bush)
She blew away the TASS test. Everywhere she goes, she just leaves a mark.
The other thing that happened to me is the sheriff that remembered my case pulled me over for a traffic citation and pulled a gun on me in front of my children. Actually, it had been an ongoing thing. I had talked with my attorney over the phone.
I got a call on a Monday, who at the time was my stepdaughter. She told me an officer had been by. She gave me his number. I called, I worked evenings, but Thursday morning he was at my house, had it surrounded by six police officers. I thought it was on something totally different, but my attorney said no, you just had an outstanding warrant.
I called my parole officer. She said 'bring your receipt.' He stood at my door. So the next day on the way out, he pulled me over, but the warrant wasn't active. I almost got charged with child endangerment, which is two felonies, one for each child, because when he pulled me out of the car, he and I got into a problem. But I never got indicted.
When I got out of jail, my son's mindset was, 'Daddy's home.' My daughter's mindset was "I don't think it's over with." You could tell that even though I was home, she still had concerns. Even now she asks me daily, 'How's your job search going?'
Q: When were you released from prison from the robberies?
A: 1996. September 26. Exactly seven years and four days from the day I was sentenced.
With my kids, I do some things that are a lot different than what I know was done with me and probably a lot of kids. I don't hide anything from them.
Everywhere we go, somebody knows me. Everywhere. They're like, 'Dad, you know everybody.' I'm like, 'Nobody knows me for the reasons I would like them to know me.'
I ask them, 'Do you want children once you get grown? If you even have any thought about having a family in the future, you need to make sure that you watch every decision that you make now. Because your children will also pay the consequences for what you do.'
Q: Did you take your kids to Friday Night Lights?
A: I went to go see it with my wife at the time. I remember feeling like an idiot in there. I mean, everybody was clapping for Odessa, even her. And the reason I felt so bad about it is because that movie depicts us as being nothing like we actually were.
Q: Your parents' names?
A: David and Mary. My father is associate minister at Friendship West. Mom is employed there, also.
I remember, when I got out on bond, I spent a lot of time with my parents, going shopping, that kind of thing. The one thing I noticed, everywhere I went, was that we broke somebody's heart. I'll never forget that. Everywhere I went, say if I heard 20 people talking about it on different occasions, maybe I heard one person say 'If that was my child, I'd have whipped his ass.' But everybody else, you could hear the hurt that was inside of them because when we won state, we had a very large following. It got bigger and bigger as the weeks went by.
I think a lot of that was that people knew the school had potential to win state championships prior to that, but it looked like it was going to happen – as well as what we were going through. You pick your side to go along with.
My two main regrets: The first is the people that I let down. Some people probably were living their dreams out through us. To know that I broke some hearts really has been a bother over time.
"The other is, for everything that I think I could have been excellent at doing, I can't be. I just have this ceiling. I know I have the ability to grow beyond it, but it remains there.
The guy who used to own Platinum, he was a top executive with J.C. Penney. He moved here and when I joined his company, we went out to eat and he was from Connecticut. He said when he came here, he heard about Texas High School football. The first game he went to was our state championship.
"He was just rambling, 'Man, this was a awesome team.' When I told him I was part of that team, he just took a whole new interest in me, as far as being a father, a husband. Him looking at me and recognizing how much I cared about my children."
He was a great guy who passed all of a sudden.
Q: Can you tell me more about the ceiling?
A: Everybody probably knows somebody who has been incarcerated or has a record. Which I used to think would probably make getting particular kind of jobs a little easier. But since the terrorism, and then the economy, so many people are having to take three or four steps back regarding their occupation. Now it's almost like a process of elimination. They all went to college. They all have a work history. But this person has a record. Get rid of him.
Q: Did you have any problems in prison?
A: Anything I ever had issue about in prison was probably me being mad about something. But I didn't have many problems. I went down there, worked toward my degree through Trinity Valley. I took a desktop publishing trade. Just stayed active.
They had a couple of flag teams and basketball teams that would play other units.
The unit I told you we first went to, we didn't lose a game the entire time.
Q: I heard your Carter classmate, Jimmy was quite the player.
A: Michael Jordan at 6 feet. There were three people who did at least four years and came home and got scholarships to college. He was one of them. He went to Paul Quinn. Played in summer league tournaments, was always in the paper. Just wasn't committed to school. Our senior year, right before district, I took an interest in trying to make sure he stayed eligible. And our English teacher flunked him with a 69. After that, he just didn't seem to be concerned with things.
He played up until right before district started. We went to the playoffs without him and lost in the first round.
You talk about a killer mentality on the court. When he went to prison, he was in the prison paper all the time averaging 50 points a game.
Q: They had a prison paper?
A: Yeah, it circulated throughout the state. Or people would get transferred, and they always made mention of ,'That's one of the Carter guys.' They'd say, 'You know a guy named Edwards, played basketball?'
Q: Did you know the three Hillcrest guys?
A: Eric Lusk, who was a real good football player, he's paralyzed now. He got home in enough time, in my opinion, if he had been focused on getting back into school, he could have accomplished some things. But he came back and somebody shot him, tried to kill him.
He played both ways at Hillcrest. He went to Carter first. He played fullback and linebacker at Hillcrest.
Q: How did your parents react when you got arrested?
A: I'll never forget my dad saying, when I got my time, I remember during an interview, he was like, 'I don't know what kind of person he'll become or will be once he comes home.'
I've only seen my dad cry twice. That's one of them, when I had my bond revoked, and judge Kendall saying I was a threat.
My mom, too. I remember someone was trying to interview her right after sentencing, she was like, 'How dare you even come to me at this time?' Being that I was their only child.
Q: What do you remember about the courtroom scene?
A: Probably no one went to school that day. It was a Friday, I'll never forget.
When that day came, before the sentencing, we all came in with our families. It was closed off to only the immediate family. After we were sentenced, we didn't go back out. We were taken.
Q: How many people were there?
A: Two hundred, easy. I never have seen anything like that. It's probably like going to a game.
And very chaotic after sentencing. I'll never forget the screams. As each person was sentenced, all you heard was another scream being let out. Another scream, then another scream.
What I shared with you earlier about breaking people's hearts? I never took the time to think about how even people you don't even think cared about you, even from our rival schools. When I was out on bond, it was like, 'I'm pulling for you, man.'
Q: While you were in prison, were you able to keep up with what was going on?
I did a lot of writing. I would say for the first four or five years I probably averaged two or three letters a day. The first couple of years, I got, it was almost like fan mail, people wanting me to write their child. Coaches, former players. I stayed in touch with Coach James.
Had TV. Both the Dallas newspapers. The only thing that was difficult was things rarely remain the same in prison. When I left, it was cassette tapes. When I got back, it was CDs.
Q: What else do you remember about your playing career as you look back?
A: My extracurriculars helped keep me off the field. I'd leave and go up the street to Kimball for lunch. At that time, there was a whole lot of being able to leave campus.
I promise you, I appreciate Coach James just like I appreciate my dad. Our relationship now is a whole lot better than when I was on the football team. I know he used to stress to me, you wouldn't even be on this team if you didn't have the talent you have, but I know if I let you go, you're really going to be worse off.
The guy who probably had the most potential was Derric.
Derric, he's a peculiar guy. He's the kind of person, you could say something to Derric and Derric would just look at you. He won't say a word. When I told you I saw him seven years later, he was like that. I think I was over there doing some welding, the last two weeks, he and I didn't have no conversation. But the last thing he told me was, 'Don't take it personally, man.'"
We had formed a bond early in our incarceration because he and Gary were the first to be arrested. People looked down on them being open about what went down. I didn't bond out at first because my bond was the highest. I formed some relationships down there. I remember when we were sentenced, they had us all handcuffed together. We were in the holdover.
A particular guy that had come off the tank I was on downtown asked which two are the ones who told? I didn't answer. I said, 'Don't worry about it, man, we'll take care of it.' When we got to the Hilltop, the unit that all of us went to, some of the guys didn't want to deal with them. But my mind said, 'Too late now.' I'd rather be dealing with somebody I know than somebody I don't know."
Q: You mean some of the other guys from Carter?
A: Yeah. I was the last person to be picked up. They talked about four different cases, maybe four to six different people, so that's 24 different statements against one particular person.
Q: Some of have said one of the reasons you may have gotten a stiffer sentence was because you didn't show much remorse at trial.
A: All my life I've heard, 'What you sorry for? Are you sorry you did it, or sorry you got caught?' I just felt like as a man, I didn't cry when I was doing it, why cry now?
Q: Did you cry after you went to prison?
A: Many times. My dad had a heart attack in '92, same week my grandmother and one of my cousins passed. And my mom had a stroke in '94, two years prior to my coming home.
Actually, my dad, I don't think, was doing too good when I came home. He didn't come pick me up, so that told me a lot in itself. But when I got home, he was a whole different person. He hasn't been the same since.
Q: One of the things Gary mentioned in terms of regret is he has heard a lot of people assume Jessie Armstead was involved and just didn't get caught.
A: There are two things that I use to discredit anybody who ever said that. First two people who ever got caught was Derric and Gary. Gary's brother Ronald was involved. Gary told on Ronald. Derric's cousin was Norbert. He told on Norbert. They ain't going to let Jessie make it.
Jessie is the Carter boy who said no. To this day, he's in good favor with me because of the kind of mentality he showed at that time. Because I know the desire was there, but the ability to not give in means a whole lot to me.
You think about what he's accomplished. A lot of those guys who ended up incarcerated if nothing else had an opportunity to pursue a higher education, free of charge.
