Carter head coach

Q: As you know, we're doing a retrospective on the '88 team. What's the first thing you think about when someone brings that team up?

A: One of the better teams that have ever been through Dallas, probably.

I consider it the best in the state of Texas, anywhere. I think that particular year, we could have competed against any school in the United States and done well.

You talk about intelligent. That was a smart, intelligent group of young men.

I'll give you a good example. When we played Marshall in Waco, they were a good team. My little wiry receiver, Marcus Grant, they had him covered. During the playoffs is when I started throwing. Before that, I basically ran 70 percent of the time. When I hit the playoffs, we had plays designed; we had worked on it all year, in case we needed the pass.

Fifteen seconds to go in the half, I called timeout. 'Marcus, remember that A-formation, we're going to throw that because they doubling you, I want my tight end, Hill, to flex about eight yards from the tackle. Hall, I want you to do a play action, fake it to the tailback, take two steps and let the ball fly.

Touchdown, no time left on the clock at halftime.

Other thing so exciting about that ballgame is Jessie Armstead. I call it the Catch. The paper called it The Catch.

Jessie said, 'Coach, I will catch the ball. Marshall had an unreal defense. We were on the 5, they kept stuffing us.

Jessie had a broken hand with pads all over his elbows. I told Robert, 'Jessie's not used to catching it,' throw a basketball pass, dink it over. Touchdown.

We went on to beat Marshall.

That team that year was a well-disciplined team on the football field. Now, they did crazy stuff. Sometimes I had to get on their behinds and put a board on them. But they knew they couldn't mess with me.

Q: Could you recount the grade issue?

A: I didn't know anything about it until the Dallas Morning News or Times Herald came out on the football field. Cameras and stuff. 'Coach, I heard you had an ineligible player.

Gary Edwards, they had switched Gary out of one class into another two weeks before the six weeks was up. I didn't know anything about it.

So we checked the grades. On his report card he had two of the same classes. Algebra I with one teacher and Algebra I with another. So I asked, why isn't there two grades. We moved him from Bates to someone else, by the request of the parent, I guess.

When they switched them, they didn't tell me. When we checked the grades, I went to the principal and asked, `Why does Gary have two grades?' He said the last teacher was responsible, that's the grade that counts.' Being the principal, I took his word.

I said, 'That other grade shouldn't even be on that report card.' He said, 'mistake. I run this school. What I say goes.

We all thought it was all right, but it was too late because I had played him in a ballgame before that.

The media heard about it before I did. Camera and big old trucks, they know we're in the playoffs, they're coming to interview us. Shocked me. Couldn't believe it.

We had hell out of it.

But that's bridge under the water. To show you how good and how intelligent our kids were, I was in Austin almost every day. My assistant coach took over. I might fly back in by the time practice is over.

Myself and Vonner, my defensive coordinator, were in Austin. Kept going back and forth. One time we spent the night.

The kids got disgusted every time I talked to them. I said, 'You all act as though I'm here. Suppose I lost my life . ... go on and carry out your plan.

We even got on the bus as we got ready to play Samuell in the Cotton Bowl. Here comes a DISD car. Walked up there, 'Coach, you've got an ineligible player. The whole team needs to get off the bus.' The whole team got off, boys went home, about 45 minutes later, game is supposed to start at 7 or 8 'coach, you get your boys, we'll go ahead and play.' Had to call a bunch of them.

We get to the Cotton Bow, everybody started to get off the bus. Somebody hollered to get off, 'Coach, you're not going to play.' At the stadium!

That worried the kids. Finally, they said, ya'll go ahead and get dressed. We even got down the ramp of the Cotton Bowl and somebody said, 'I don't think they've approved it yet.

We went back to the dressing room. I said, 'Look here, guys. I know you want to play. People paid their money. Samuell played us to death. At halftime, we went back, I said 'I know all of you aren't in your right mind. You remember when you were little kids, playing sandlot, throwing the ball around, laughing, having fun, enjoying yourself.'

They jumped up and yelled. Man, Samuell didn't move that ball at all. Jessie intercepted the ball and ran it all the way back.

Really, I had fun coaching all those kids. Kids now are not as controllable as the kids were when I coached. They do their own thing; they don't want to listen to the coaches. Hard-headed is what I call them.

They don't train right. I probably had some in the same group and didn't know anything about it.

Q: Did you say you used a paddle?

A: Can't do that now. I put a paddle in my bag. They didn't know I wasn't going to whup them at the stadium. "Coach is acting crazy.' I'd let them see me put that paddle in the bag.

Jessie was a mischievous boy. Jessie might grab a girl and kiss her in the hall. But Jessie was smart. He finished in three years as an honor student.

People said, 'Oooh, Carter's a great big old team. Even on Friday Night Lights, they had us listed as weighing 300 or 400 hundred pounds. We weren't that big. The biggest offensive lineman was Gary Smith, and we only weighed 305, I think. The rest of 280, 290.

On defense, the biggest guy we had was Cherry. He weighed 225. The rest like Buckley weighed 180 pounds soaking wet. Savage was 5-6, I give him two inches, and weighed 175 pounds, but nobody could block him he was so quick. I was looking for quickness on the defensive line.

The slowest guy on that defense was probably Cherry. Those linebackers, every last one of them, ran a 4.6 or better. Jesse ran a 4.4. I was looking for speed on defense that year. I built my team around it.

Q: You mentioned Friday Night Lights. What do you remember about the Odessa Permian game?

A: Odessa, we flew out to negotiate with Odessa. They tried to buy us out and come down. They offered us free meals, free transportation, free hotel. I refused to go to Odessa because I heard bad things about the way they treat other teams who come in there, even team officials and fans and the band.

It took us four hours to negotiate. We talked about Texas Stadium. Texas Tech, then why can't you come to the Cotton Bowl. They wanted to agree to a neutral site. I found out on the flight to there from a young man that Odessa was superstitious about playing in Abilene. I used that as a selling point.

I said Waco, Sprague Field. They said, the Cotton Bowl's over in the ghetto. I said, playing in Lubbock is like the ghetto to me.

We missed our flight, too. Principal, AD, were all mad, they went with us. After that, we decided to play in Austin without flipping a coin. After missing our flight, we sat around in the airport for three or four hours to come back that night. The principal and everybody were cursing behind my back.

At UT Stadium, the band was going to do the same thing, they waited, Odessa band waited until we got ready to come warm up. They circled almost the entire field. They had us pinned in so we could not come out of the Texas dressing room. I told the band kids, can ya'll open up. They pretended they didn't hear us. I told the player to make some noise. They started whooping and hollering. They thought they were going to get run over. So they finally let us through.

It was raining like cats and dogs. We managed to beat them. Friday Night Lights had us playing in the Astrodome, which was wrong. It was a tight ballgame, but we managed to beat them.

Q: When you left the field after beating Judson, there was uncertainty that the title would be taken away, or were you able to enjoy it?

A: You know what? It didn't even worry me. Because one thing I proved on that field who was the best. And the same thing that the coach at Judson said. He said he doesn't want that trophy. He said Carter High School was the best team that night. And they deserve to keep it.

I wasn't worried about that trophy. That's just a thing. That's just an item. But in the mind of the people, Carter High School was the best team. We were the greatest that particular night, so why should I worry about it?

But I hated that it happened for the sake of the school and the sake of DISD. Because Dallas Independent School District has been good to me. They've supported me, in the athletic department.

So they're going to take it, it didn't' bother me too much.

The next year, the same thing happened, Mr. Russeau did the same thing. The only thing that saved my butt from being fired was the dean of instructors. The dean of instructors told the superintendent, Coach James didn't do anything wrong. Mr. Russeau made her sign the grade sheet that said the boy is eligible. The superintendent told me that day, that I was to report back and continue coaching. That was '88. I stayed another eight years and had success with the programs. The most games I ever lost was three ballgames in one season.

Q: After the school year was when you found out some players had been arrested?

A: I was so shocked. I got a phone call, lady said 'Coach, it's an emergency. They've got about ten police over here. They picked them up over by Hampton and Red Bird at that shopping center, right near that Fiesta at 67.' They said, 'Coach, you need to get over here. There's something you might be able to do.

I said, 'Police got them for what?' I got in the car and ran over there. And when I got there, the police cars were leaving and I didn't get a chance to talk to them. But I did get a chance to talk to some of the parents and students.

They said 'Derric Evans, Gary Edwards, they put them in jail. They robbed somebody. I said, 'Those boys aren't that stupid; it had to be somebody else.' It must be mistaken identity; that's the first thing that entered my mind.

I never would have dreamed those kids would do that. Come to find out, one or two of them were doing it for a joke. They didn't mean nothing. Why you going to do something like that as a joke? For laughing and carrying on.

Look here, right up until today, Gary Edwards would have been playing football and Derric Evans definitely would have. Derric Evans probably would have retired as professional. That boy, he was tall, safety, you didn't throw no ball by him. That kid could cover the whole secondary. That's another one who could run 4.3, about 6-3 and could run.

Now, he messed up his whole career.

Gary Edwards, I think he would have played professional football, too. Because Gary Edwards could play offense, return kicks, punts, he could do all that. They would have found a place for him.

Q: Were you called to testify?

A: As a character witness, yes. I went down there about three times, maybe four. I couldn't say nothing bad about them. Everything I said was good, and it was the truth.

Q: Did you have any contact with the players while they were in prison?

A: They used to write me letters. Told me, lots of them were so touching, that they were sorry they embarrassed me and the school and also Dallas Independent School District. Or they told me the things they were going to do when they got out.

Q: What kind of impact do you think losing the title had on the community?

A: I don't think it had too much effect. Most of them, the stadium was full of Carter community people, and they were there to enjoy the ballgame. They know who won the ballgame.

And when they trophy, all of them told me, 'It's just a plaque. Most of the parents did. They said, 'Coach, you hold your head up high. Don't let this put you in the grave. One parent said, 'Don't let this kill you because there's always tomorrow."

That was a big uplift to me. They really did. They allowed me to keep my head up high. It made me not be ashamed to be around them, to go to the mall, or go to a restaurant because they all supported me, although we were stripped of it and were ineligible to keep it.

Q: You still run into them?

A: All the time. I see some of them at ballgames, lots of students. Last night I worked the volleyball game over at Davis gym. I ran across about five or six of those guys. Not only the boys, but the girls too, who had kids playing volleyball.

Q: Do you remember when the trophy was removed from the case trophy case?

A: Yeah. I took it out and DISD athletic office sent security or someone, I guess someone picked it up because I put it in the principal's office. I took it out of the case. In the hall, next to the auditorium. I took it and put it on the desk where you come and sign in.

So the next day I went in there, it was gone.

Q: How did you feel at that time?

A: With the uplifting of the people in the school, and then my parents and the community, I didn't feel a thing.

I kissed the trophy, though. I kissed it. I said, 'That's the end of it.'

You know what, when I passed the trophy case and I over there, I didn't ever miss it. Like it was never there.

I remember kissing the trophy, though. I'm glad the camera man wasn't there.